Logan Lerman, in Conversation With Martin Short

Logan Lerman, photographed by Maya Spangler.

For Logan Lerman, snagging the teenage heartthrob title was just the beginning. Over a decade after starring in YA hits like Percy Jackson and The Perks of Being a Wallflower, the 33-year-old actor has found the freedom to pursue what he truly desires. This month, it’s Oh, Hi!, a heartwarming BDSM-tinged romance with Molly Gordon directed by Sophie Brooks. He’s even gotten to meet his heroes—but the scale of it all has barely settled in. “To call you a friend is crazy to me,” Lerman told Martin Short, his Only Murders in the Building costar and long-time hero. Earlier this month, Short hopped on a Zoom from his Canadian hideaway to talk to Lerman about Hollywood classics, celeb crushes, and the realities of show business.

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LOGAN LERMAN: I feel like we dressed similarly today.

MARTIN SHORT: I’m in a… well, you know.

LERMAN: You got the black shirt underneath the open—

SHORT: It’s the easiest. I loved the movie.

LERMAN: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

SHORT: I think it was funnier than the take, when you’re trying to explain to her, “Of course we’re not in a relationship.” It’s fantastic.

LERMAN: Yeah, I’ve been on the other side of that way too many times, so it came naturally. Congratulations, by the way, Mr. Emmy nominee.

SHORT: Oh, that’s true. It’s a great honor to get nominated for an Emmy. I think it’s my 23rd nomination.

LERMAN: Well-deserved, and you should win this year.

SHORT: Thank you. But the star of your movie, Molly [Gordon], is just phenomenal.

LERMAN: Have you met her before?

SHORT: I know her. I’m friends with her parents. Jessie, her mother, wrote Waitress and directed the movie I Am Sam.

LERMAN: Of course. Iconic.

SHORT: And Bryan [her father] is a brilliant director of everything in television and movies. They’re just a fabulous couple. 

LERMAN: I worked with her father when I was a child, which is the craziest thing, but I never met Molly until this movie about a year ago. 

SHORT: So, how’s your house looking?

LERMAN: It’s coming together little by little. We didn’t work with a designer, so we’re finding the right pieces for our home. You have to come over when you’re back in town. I feel like you never really just relax. Am I wrong about this? You always have something cooking.

SHORT: Well, I tend to overbook and I get angry at myself about that. But I do like to see how long I can not work, especially up here. It’s a place to putter and watch old movies.

LERMAN: What are you watching lately?

SHORT: We just watched To Kill a Mockingbird. We also always watch The Edge up here. It’s a bear attacking Alec Baldwin, and it’s pretty brilliant.

LERMAN: Is that [David] Mamet?

SHORT: Yeah. You love movies, don’t you?

LERMAN: I do. I’m such a Mamet fan. I haven’t seen many older movies lately, but I’ve been going to the theaters and seeing what’s out. Is there a theater near you up there?

SHORT: Well, you’d have to drive 50 minutes. For a while, I didn’t have any satellite up here. Then, when Obama was going to get nominated, I thought, “I want to see that,” so we got satellite.

LERMAN: That’s fantastic.

SHORT: Do you ever find black and white turns you off?

LERMAN: I love black and white. I wish filmmakers utilized it more.

SHORT: Well, there was a battle in the film Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Because Mike Nichols always saw it as black and white, and his lead actress was like 33 and only worked in black and white. But at the last second Jack Warner said, “I think we do it in color.”

LERMAN: I need a rewatch on that.

SHORT: Can you imagine your first two films are Who’s Afraid Of Virginia Woolf? and The Graduate?

LERMAN: It’s absurd. I wish I had the chance to spend time with him. You know that question everybody has, “If you could have dinner with anybody that’s ever lived…?” I think Mike Nichols would be my pick.

SHORT: Well, I was at many dinners with him, but there was always an element of me pinching myself. I believe that it’s about who was influential and brilliant when you were 12 and 13.

LERMAN: That’s you for me, my friend.

SHORT: Really?

LERMAN: Truly. 

SHORT: It must’ve been very exciting for you to meet me.

LERMAN: It was, and to call you a friend is crazy to me. I was obsessed with your movies growing up, like Three Amigos and Clifford. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen Clifford. That movie is just brilliant.

SHORT: So perverse. I’ve told the story before, but when Nick Cage won the Oscar for Leaving Las Vegas, the following Tuesday I flew from L.A. to New York and I looked and there’s Nic Cage. Never met him before and I thought, “I have to go up to him.” And about 20 minutes later, Nic Cage is kneeling beside me. “Dude, I have to talk to you about Clifford. There was one scene in the kitchen that I kept rewinding and I jammed my machine.” And I thought, “Wait a second, I’m supposed to be talking to you about winning the Oscar.”

LERMAN: That’s amazing. That movie was brilliant, Leaving Las Vegas, but I watched it once and never wanted to see it again. It was such a hard watch.

SHORT: I’ll phone Nic and tell him.

LERMAN: But Clifford, I’ve probably seen 50 times in my life.

SHORT: Well, maybe that reveals a little bit of your own tragedy.

LERMAN: Perhaps. I’ve quoted “Look at me like a real boy,” so many times. 

SHORT: I saw your movie, Perks of Being a Wallflower, when we were shooting together. And now you are part of Only Murders in the Building, season five. Did you like Christoph [Waltz]?

LERMAN: What’s there not to like? The guy is just so pure.

SHORT: Don’t you think he’s brilliant?

LERMAN: He’s amazing. But there’s no filter with him. 

SHORT: And that’s what I adore about him. 

LERMAN: He’s a blunt man, and I respect bluntness. I’ll be like, “Hey, you want to go to see this play tonight?” And he’d just be like, “No.” No follow-up. I love that about him.

SHORT: And he’s a brilliant actor. He’s totally in the moment, and yet there’s this incredible calm about him.

LERMAN: He’s one of those guys where I’m like, “I adore you so much, but I can’t imagine we’re going to hang out again.”

SHORT:. Well, you never know. You could end up in Serbia shooting a film where you’re handcuffed again, this time to him.

LERMAN: I like this beginning.

SHORT: You’re two cons. 

LERMAN: I was imagining a more sexual undertone between us.

SHORT: I think it could maybe build to that. I can’t speak for act three. I bet we can get financing. You’re not cheap though.

LERMAN: It depends on the movie, but yeah.

SHORT: So you’re very rich now, right?

LERMAN: It depends. I’m free, and that’s important.

SHORT: What does that mean?

LERMAN: I can just work on the things I want to work on and not have to work to pay the bills. It’s the best place to be, as an actor.

SHORT: You never know what will work out. I always predicted that I would end up the neighbor on Roseanne or something.

LERMAN: My lord. It’s funny how we perceive things and how others perceive us.

SHORT: Well, I don’t think anyone worth their salt really spends a lot of time on how they’re perceived.

LERMAN: No, we just want to be satisfied with the work we’re doing.

SHORT: That’s why I think keeping the workplace light and frothy and fun is massively important, because often that’s the best memory of the whole experience you’ll have.

LERMAN: So what do you like more, theater or film?

SHORT: I think I like the variety. In Canada, we didn’t say we’re one or the other. We’re just like, “Do I bring a suit?” And in the ’70s when I started in Toronto, there was no real star system. You could be doing television, Shakespeare on radio, cabaret at night. It was like being at the “University of Show Business.”

LERMAN: I would love that. I guess it’s only in retrospect you can really appreciate it.

SHORT: At the time, you’re not aware. But the first production of Godspell that I was in, while I was still in university in Toronto, was Gilda Radner and Andrea Martin and Eugene Levy and Paul Shaffer. That was over 50 years ago.

LERMAN: Brilliant careers. I wonder where my generation of actors will be 30, 40, 50 years from now.

SHORT: And the trick of it is how to keep yourself interesting. For example, Letterman was what all of us would talk about. Tom Hanks and people like that would say “If you did well on Letterman, you felt fabulous for three days afterwards.” If it went well you’d get an agent. Everyone had so much regard for Dave that they really wanted to please him. 

LERMAN: For me, Conan [O’Brien] was always my number one. Still is.

SHORT: There’s no one funnier.

LERMAN: Yeah. I miss the place of late night in our culture, the way it really was the platform to make a star. I’d run home after school and tape the episode from the night before and watch him every day. Once that whole Conan debacle happened, the world shifted.

SHORT: That was the talk of the town.

LERMAN: Oh, it was crazy. I was fully invested as an 18 year old, and I was so Team Conan. 

SHORT: Do you know him personally?

LERMAN: No, I’ve met him a couple times.

SHORT: Who did you like on Saturday Night Live? 

LERMAN: My years were the early 2000s. Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Amy Allen, Maya Rudolph. Maybe I’m just romantic about that group because of my age at the time. I’d stay up and watch it every week. Do you have a favorite group at SNL? Or is this too sensitive because you’re friends with all these people?

SHORT: Well, I am friends with many of them, but I was a cast member for years. My favorite group is my group: Harry Shearer, Rich Hall, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Jim Belushi.

LERMAN: You know, JLD is one of my favorite actors, and also my number one crush. She’s just brilliant. I’m obsessed with Veep.

SHORT: I never watch anything, but during COVID I spent about a month and a half at my daughter Katherine’s and I watched Downton Abbey, The Crown, Ozark.

LERMAN: What did you think of Ozark?

SHORT: Some of the greatest acting I’d ever seen. Everyone was so creepy. Laura Linney is spectacular.

LERMAN: I just want to see Laura Linney in everything. 

SHORT: There’s so much television I haven’t seen. But that’s why when I go to the Emmys, I treat everyone like a star. That’s the safest way.

LERMAN: You’re just a sweetie.

SHORT: I don’t know if that’s true.

LERMAN: What does the rest of your day look like after this?

SHORT: I’ll tell you who’s a house guest here: Mr. Eugene Levy.

LERMAN: Are you serious? He’s in your house as we’re talking?

SHORT: Serious. And then tomorrow I have a couple of shows out West, and I’ll do that with Mr. John Mulaney.

LERMAN: Oh, fantastic. See, you don’t stop. Where are you two performing?

SHORT: Saturday night we’re in Winnipeg, and then the next night we’re in Edmonton. You should come to my little cottage here one day.

LERMAN: I’ve been waiting for the offer. I’ll buy a flight right now. Screw promoting this movie. I’m in full press run right now, but this was the one thing I was most excited about, getting to talk with you for Interview. 

SHORT: We had fun on the set.

LERMAN: We did indeed. Only Murders has a reputation for being the most fun, inviting, joyous set that’s ever existed. To be on a multi-season show like that is the dream. And it’s a stacked cast.

SHORT: Of course. Richard [Kind]. Speaking of Clifford, he was Clifford’s father in the movie?

SHORT: Yes. 

LERMAN: He has just the greatest delivery. He can take the most simple sentence and turn it into incredible music with his voice. Do you watch yourself in projects? 

SHORT: I don’t love doing it, but it’s something you have to do. You’ve just seen enough. Like, can’t we talk about something else? 

LERMAN: I’m the same. I know some people that love it, but I’m not like that. What really makes me happy is when other people watch it. 

SHORT: But I did love seeing Perks [of a Wallflower] because we were working together and it was such a work of art. You’ve worked with a lot of famous people now, for someone who’s only 33. 

LERMAN: Yeah. I’ve been lucky.

SHORT: You worked with Brad Pitt [on Fury].

LERMAN: That’s such a heavy movie too.

SHORT: I have seen it. And I saw Three Musketeers.

LERMAN: Oh god, you saw Three Musketeers? I’m so sorry.

SHORT: No, but hold on. Do you like him?

LERMAN: Brad’s the greatest. 

SHORT: I met him briefly once in the ’90s, and then Steve Martin got an honorary Oscar and I met him that night, just to say hello.

LERMAN: I met Brad when I was a little kid as a fan at a restaurant. He was in full leather pants, leather button-up, just the coolest-looking person I’d ever seen in my life. Then we worked together and became friends. It’s nice when you meet people you admire and they are not fussy and particular. They just want to make something great. I’ve worked with some people, who shall remain nameless, that aren’t like that.

SHORT: Oh, come on. Name them.

LERMAN: I will not, but wouldn’t it be fun if I just started bashing all the obnoxious people I’ve worked with? But Brad was so giving. 

SHORT: Brad Pitt is a movie star. 

LERMAN: He’s just so hot. His beauty is insane.

SHORT: Unbelievable. And talented.

LERMAN: And talented, but so good-looking. You’re just like, “What the hell?” And he’s humble. 

SHORT: How did you struggle through working with Steve Martin?

LERMAN: [Laughs] He’s the best. Some of my favorite memories were moments with you and Steve. I would be pinching myself on the way home. And Steve would bring his banjo to work and play.

SHORT: You’ve worked with Renée Zellweger before.

LERMAN: Yeah, when I was a kid. We didn’t keep in touch because I was a child when we worked together, but she got me a guitar at that age. My god, all those great actors and no sense of superiority.

SHORT: Everyone’s just trying to get through the day and not screw up. That never goes away. Once you say, “I can’t be bothered to work today,” then you should retire.

LERMAN: Yeah, seriously. I’m just always hoping that I’ll connect with something and feel inspired. I would love to do theater. I’ve never been on stage. It’s much harder than films.

SHORT: And it’s eight shows a week. That’s the killer.

LERMAN: I think you told me once that you need to train and stay healthy and be in that athlete mindset. And then being on a film or a TV show, you’re an athlete, but you’re playing darts.

SHORT: Absolutely. If you’re doing a musical, first of all, you wake up and you’re afraid to speak because you don’t know what your voice is going to sound like.

LERMAN: You have such a beautiful voice. 

SHORT: It’s very loud.

LERMAN: It’s good to have that projection. I remember reading that singing was your first passion.

SHORT: Oh, I wanted to be Sinatra. I used to record albums at 15. I’d use his introductions and I’d sing the middle part using different tape recorders.

LERMAN: Is this just something you have saved somewhere?

SHORT: I was a big collector. I once hid a microphone underneath my parents’ dining room table and recorded Christmas dinner.

LERMAN: Oh, that’s so sweet.

SHORT: Not with the fights going on.

LERMAN: Well, I grew up in an Irish-Catholic family and, if anything, I’ve worked hard to erase them from my memory. It was good back then. Now? You’d be a doctor, you can’t buy a house.

SHORT: Can’t buy a house, and you’re afraid of a lawsuit.

LERMAN: And you’re afraid of AI taking your job.

SHORT: Oh, what a world. All right, I’m going to see what Eugene’s doing.

LERMAN: Please do. I adore you and thank you for doing this.